Today we're doing something a little bit different. Instead of converting or remixing an adventure, we'll be going through my proposed revisions to the Remastered cantrips. Here are my initial reddit post, my math spreadsheet, and my full conversion doc with all the new changes (both to remaster cantrips and the older ones).
Context
Cantrips were already not particularly strong in Pathfinder 2e, and Spellcaster damage was already something a lot of people wanted more of. The Remaster ended up nerfing cantrips slightly (in favor of buffing Focus Spells, which is rad), which many folks thought was a change in the wrong direction.
Even before the remaster, I'd been buffing most cantrips to keep them somewhat in line with Electric Arc and similar spells, which dealt in many cases twice the average damage as other cantrips! Even against enemies with high reflex saves, Electric Arc was still often the right choice, which made other cantrips feel almost useless by comparison - they still filled niches (like when there was only 1 enemy, or when targets were immune/heavily resistant to electricity), but were multiple tiers worse.
There are two approaches to this. The first is to nerf Electric Arc and similar spells. I think this would be fine! Bump it down to 1d4 starting, or 1d6 scaling every 2 ranks, and it would be more in line with other cantrips while still being useful. Even when casters spammed Electric Arc, though, their damage has never approached that of martials or felt too powerful in my games, so my inclination is to go the other way: buff the cantrips that are underperforming!
Ultimately, it's 100% your call what you want to do! You can:
- Adopt these changes (or something similar) to buff the less powerful cantrips
- Keep cantrips the same, and accept that there are some very obviously strictly better/worse options
- Nerf Electric Arc and other multi-target cantrips (my vote would be 1d6 at R1, scaling every 2 ranks, or 1d4 at R1, scaling every rank).
I think the game will survive regardless. Casters do have other tools (especially with potential buffs to focus spells in the Remaster), and will be fine, but if your players want casters to be able to do reasonably consistent damage even at low levels / without spending spell slots I recommend the changes below!
Analysis of Changes
There are 4 categories of changes: revised remaster cantrips, unchanged remaster cantrips, heavily changed old cantrips, and minorly changed old cantrips. If a cantrip doesn't appear in these sections, it's because it is similar enough to a remaster cantrip that I don't think it's worth having both.
Note that I've left non-damage cantrips alone, as they seem more or less fine!
Altered Remaster Cantrips
Daze was unnecessarily weak (likely because of the combo of 60 foot range and a solid if seldom applied crit fail effect), so I standardized its damage to 2d4, scaling at +1d4 per rank.
Divine Lance, Frostbite, Ignition, and Telekinetic Projectile all in my opinion just don't do enough damage to be worth it - the former two because 2d4 damage is pretty low, the latter two because attack rolls are much less reliable. So, I boosted their damage dice by one step!
I could see rolling back this change to Telekinetic Projectile and instead increasing its range to 60 if the d8s at range prove to be too strong.
I standardized Needle Darts to be 2d6, scaling +1d6, because otherwise it just falls off compared to Telekinetic Projectile! I personally like where they're at - Needle Darts has better range and can trigger weaknesses, but Telekinetic Projectile has better damage and can deal multiple damage types - but I could see flattening them further if needed. Needle Darts is definitely less thematic now, which is unfortunate, but I think it's worth it to keep it relevant past rank 1.
Timber was the only change that wasn't to damage, but to area! A 15 foot line sucks. The odds of getting 2 targets are very low, and getting 3 is near impossible. A 20 foot line is much better, however - you can be 15 feet away and still hit two targets, or 10 feet away and hit two non-adjacent targets! I could see a different change where it started at 15 but scaled up by 5 every two ranks or something, but I like it like this for now.
Unchanged Remaster Cantrips
Electric Arc and Caustic Blast both fall into the "solid multi-target damage, no need for a change" category.
Slashing Gust is slightly more contentious - the 60 foot range is very nice, but the fact that it's an attack roll and the requirement to have 2 hands free are major points against it. Personally, I use potency runes that can be put on wands or staffs in my games at the same levels as the kineticist item, and will allow those to count as one of the hands free (so a player could wield a staff and still benefit from this). I'd have to do more playtesting to feel comfortable just blanket only requiring 1 hand free or dropping the requirement all together, but you should feel free to just go ahead and do so if it makes you happy!
I originally increased the damage of Gouging Claw, but was convinced that it's fine as it is, and if buffed further would be OP for Magi - it still does more damage than Ignition if the bleed procs twice, and only does less on a crit assuming it procs at least once.
Heavily Altered Old Cantrips
These cantrips got changes more in line with the Altered Remaster Cantrips above.
Ancient Dust, Gale Blast, and Haunting Hymn are all AoE spells with clear upsides over other ones on this list. Ancient Dust is a 15 foot cone (a straight upgrade over the old Timber) and does persistent damage; Gale Blast pushes people away on a failed save and can potentially hit up to 8 people (more if you're Large), albeit only if you're in a bad way; Haunting Hymn is also a 15 foot cone and defeans them on a crit fail.
I've therefore left all three of these spells at 1d4 per rank, rather than 2d4 + 1d4 scaling. They'll do slightly less damage than Electric Arc (unless Ancient Dust's persistent void damage procs multiple times or Gale Blast hits a ton of targets), but not by much. Haunting Hymn is probably strictly worse than Ancient Dust in most situations, but Ancient Dust is uncommon so that's probably ok.
The final heavily altered spell is Puff of Poison, which I've altered to basically mirror Gouging Claw, but with slightly less damage in return for it being a basic save rather than an attack.
Minorly Changed Old Cantrips
These cantrips stayed the same, other than removing the attribute mod to damage in favor of an extra damage die and swapping components for traits. Personally, I think it's better for the game that this is standardized, but YMMV.
Phase Bolt just got a straight damage boost to 2d6. It's sometimes more accurate than the other ranged attack spells in return for being short range with only 1 damage type.
Ray of Frost also got a boost to 2d6, as while 120 foot range is really good it doesn't come up in most campaigns. I personally like having a long range cantrip option, though if folks disagree you're free to reduce this back to 2d4 or remove it altogether! It was meant to be thematically replaced by Frostbite, after all (which trade range for a basic save).
Scatter Scree stayed the same, other than going to 2d4 instead of 1d4 + Mod and swapping components for traits.
Spout is an interesting one. I ended up going with increasing the damage to 2d6, as it's usually only going to hit 1 target (the exceptions being multiple tiny creatures in the same square, in which case scatter scree would hit 2 squares worth of tiny creatures, or when you're in water, which usually won't come up much). If you're playing in a nautical campaign or otherwise expect to have lots of ponds/creeks/etc., you might want to reduce the damage down to 2d4.
Cut Cantrips
These cantrips were thematically replaced in the Remaster to the point that I don't think they're worth including: Acid Splash, Chill Touch, Disrupt Undead, and Produce Flame
Also Ghost Sound, though that's not a damage cantrip.
Psychic Cantrips
I did not touch any special class cantrips (such as composition or hex cantrips). Maybe it's worth taking a pass at some point, but I hope you can use this structure to figure it out for yourself it you have a player that wants you to!
Psychics in particular have abilities that work weirdly with the remaster cantrips already, but work extremely weirdly with my version of them, so here's how I would adjust that!
I overall tried not to change damage too much. Telekinetic Projectile and Phase Bolt will deal slightly more damage when amped just because the base cantrip does more damage, but they scale just like they did in the core psychic class to stay in line with focus spells like fire ray which are already very strong damage options, no need to get too much higher. This does mean rolling two different types of dice (2d8 + 2d6 per rank or 2d6 + 2d4 per rank respectively), but I have faith in y'all haha.
Produce Flame has been replaced with Ignition, which already does what The Oscillating Wave gave Produce Flame! To keep the same spirit without buffing Ignition's melee damage too high I increase the persistent damage of melee castings from d4s to d8s - a bigger die change because it will come up much less often.
Ray of Frost can basically still work the same, but if you want to use Frostbite instead you can buff the range to 120 and change the damage dice to d8s to account for it being a saving throw instead of an attack.
Daze was mostly changed to scale at heightened (+1), bringing the damage per rank down slightly in favor of consistency and increasing the mental weakness.
Overall, I think the psychic is fine! The amped versions are still way better than the core version, and while other casters benefit from the gap being closed, so do they.
That's all folks! If you have thoughts, please share them here!
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