The first chapter of Book 4, Secrets of the Temple City, is a really freakin cool concept! It utilizes Pathfinder 2e's influence subsystem for a diplomatic envoy to Mzali, a city ruled by a tyrannical, undead child god, which in my opinion is the best use for this system. After being a bit disappointed with how the subsystem was used in Stolen Fate, I was really excited to see it used more appropriately!
Running this chapter has convinced me that the Influence system is woefully insufficient as the structure for an adventure. I don't think it's a bad system, per say, as I'll get to later on, but it leads to a really repetitive play loop and ultimately lacks drama!
I want to talk about 3 things, though I've split the 3rd off into its own post:
- An review/analysis of the chapter as written - what it does well, and what it doesn't
- Changes I made to the chapter when I ran it (primarily adding antagonists), and how they went
- Brainstorming on how to improve this chapter further (see part 2 for more on how to fix the Influence system broadly and this chapter specifically, and part 3 for my grand finale!)
Review of Words for the Dead
Chapter 1 of Strength of Thousands Book 4: Secrets of the Temple City, titled Words for the Dead, has a lot of promise! There are lots of very interesting NPCs, the city of Mzali is fascinating, and diplomacy is something not often seen as the main thrust for a D&D/Pathfinder adventure, but it fits the vibe of the Magaambya really well and opens up some fun possibilities.
Unfortunately, it doesn't do a great job of delivering on that premise.
| The City of Mzali pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Mzali |
What Went Well
Before I get to the negatives, there's a lot of cool stuff in this chapter!
- The premise is really cool! Diplomacy is right up the Magaambya's alley, and Mzali is such a fun setting for it
- Both fights (the ambush and the test) have great twists/stakes
- I love that there are frequent marks of progress / rewards built into the influence stat blocks
- There's some solid character details! Even the council feels distinct enough to work with
- I love having M'bele / the Vidrians there as an outside party that can cause problems or be an asset
- I love that characters with non-standard diplomacy skills can still potentially do stuff
- I like that there are different success states, depending on how well the party does (though there's not an obvious way to let the players know where they ranked unless the GM just, tells them)
Structural Problems
A few problems with this adventure are basically problems in every Paizo AP (and, to be fair, in most adventures designed for "modern" systems): a lot of important information is buried in paragraphs of text, and there's a lack of economy of writing: there's a lot of information present that doesn't really help me as a GM, and a lot of information missing that would be really useful. Largely, this because APs are meant to be read rather than referenced at the table. Personally, though, I would rather an adventure be easy to use than pleasant to read (though having both is possible).
Beyond these persistent problems, however, the main problem with this chapter is that it treats the Influence system as scenario design, when it isn't. It's a weaker form of structure than even combat is, and you can't make an entire (satisfying) adventure purely out of combat. You need stakes! Character motivations! Bad guys to oppose! Conflict to resolve! Choices to make!
This chapter has none of those. Success is inevitable, and time is endless, so there are no stakes. While we have some backstory/traits for NPCs, we don't know what they want, or how that intersects with the party. While there bad guys, the goal is to make nice with them, not oppose them. While there's some degree of challenge, there's no conflict. Apart from choices like "What skill should I roll to influence this person?" or "Should I try to Influence or Discover", most choices are pretty meaningless given the above.
Timing: What's the Fail State?
Part of the reason that this chapter lacks tension is that there's no real fail state, because there is neither a time limit nor competing interests.
As written, the optimal way to play this chapter is to max out everyone but one person, and then hyper-focus on that person. This is because when Nkiruka's Influence hits 8, the party WILL meet with Walkena in a week, whether they like it or not, and their total Influence determines how successful they are. This is bad for two main reasons.
First, it's really unintuitive! My players' first inclination was to try to make contact with as many people as possible and get them vaguely on board, then work them the rest of the way up over time. They (luckily for them) did a really bad job with Themba, meaning that he ended up last, but ironically if they'd rolled better sooner they would've been less successful in the long run. I don't think their plan was bad, either, it made sense to me!
Second, there's no fail state! The party can just keep trying until they inevitably succeed, barring fictional things happen that cut off certain individuals (though the book doesn't give any guidance on this). This removes any potential tension or drama from negotiations.
Action & Events: What are we doing?
The action in this chapter is extremely repetitive. Assuming 1 check per influence, the PCs will be making close to 60 skill checks, each representing a fully separate action and significant chunk of time. That's either a lot of discrete, unique actions (my players were really feeling the pressure of this by the end), or a lot of "press X to continue" style gameplay where the PCs just keep rolling dice until they inevitably succeed.
There was a distinct lack of social events, Model UN style diplomatic snags, or even background world events going on! Apart from the 2 combats and the opening scene with Nkiruka, the GM is expected to come up with all of this, when this can be some of the hardest prep.
There wasn't even a clear sense of what the goals were, a lot of the time, other than "convince them". I did my best to reward tailored, insightful approaches or arguments, but I would have loved sub-goals to break things up.
Finally, while I like that there are different skills listed with different DCs, I wish those were different approaches that the different PCs might take instead, with the exact skill left flexible (and a sidebar encouraging GMs to allow less obviously social options like Athletics sometimes). The players shouldn't be picking what skill to roll - that's just a math problem! They should be making arguments and coming up with ways to win the other diplomats over.
Premise: We Live in a Society?
It's repeatedly stated throughout the adventures that Mzali is Evil, and so are its leaders. They're bad! They suck. We're even kinda told a little of how that manifests:
- Non-Mwangi people are punished with death (though how many such people would actually want to go to Mzali? The book says "dozens or hundreds", but that feels crazy that people would go to a place where public policy is to slaughter them.
- No outside trade/ideas/etc. are allowed in. The book calls this stymying the city's potential.
- The above are explicitly goals for the Magaambya to change, but there are some other things hinted at that aren't, or are theoretical future goals:
- While there is a Voice of Mzali that listens to concerns, no one actually addresses them
- The secret police like to disappear people or something, it's left pretty vague
- The city is pretty rigidly religious (though some of the manifestations of that are just, things real world religions do? hardly evil or tyrannical)
- There's a little more info in Lost Omens: The Mwangi Expanse, but not a ton.
The thing is, all of this is distinctly absent from the actual adventure. Never do the PCs have to actually grapple with it. Never do they have to make an actual argument against any of it. Never do they see the people suffering and have to decide whether to insult their hosts to give aid or maintain relations and let it slide, or walk the tightrope of not getting someone disappeared by asking too many questions, or get in the middle of conflicts between scheming government officials feuding for power.
You might say, "But the government of Mzali aren't antagonists! You're not meant to confront them!" Then why are they the primary antagonists of chapter 3? I think a more nuanced, interesting approach that balances all of these truths and better sets up chapter 3 is possible. We honestly don't even know what the government officials want! They have (often long and irrelevant) backstories, but they don't have clear motivations in their negotiations, clear asks that the PCs have to weigh, or reasons to agree or not. You just tick up the checkboxes and eventually they magically are just onboard! The GM can absolutely dress this up to justify it (and I did), but it doesn't give the players a lot to work with.
The Bright Lions: Why are they here?
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| Holy Symbol of Chohar From the Pathfinder Wiki |
The rebel group is used really weirdly.
The initial ask by Nkiruka makes sense - get the Bright Lions to back off a bit! After that though, what are the PCs talking about with them? And why would making better friends with them make Walkena more likely to allow in outside trade? (you add that influence to the total as well)
On top of that, the Bright Lions goals and grievances are super vague! What do they actually do? Is this an Irish Troubles situation, with tons of civilian collateral damage everywhere from both sides? Do they only attack military posts, and if so, what form does that take? Are they an actual militant group that is a legitimate thorn in Walkena's side, or are they street kids with graffiti and wheat paste? The stat blocks in chapter 2 imply the former, but we don't see that anywhere!
My players really struggled against their desires to just straight up join the Bright Lions and fight Walkena - and I don't blame them! There cause is obviously, undeniably just, if extremely vague. It's so clear to me that the authors wanted to include them because they're cool and part of the story, didn't want this to become a "The PCs Kill a God" or "Do a Revolution" AP, and didn't know what a good middle ground was.
For my money, I think we should see them causing trouble and being disruptive until the PCs ask them to knock it off. There should be a legitimate question of whether they're going to, or whether the PCs should even ask them to. Moral ambiguity! The Bright Lions should have things they want from the Magaambya - funding / supplies? Magical aid / infrastructure? Targeted missions for the PCs to go on? Ideally, there should be several options, and the PCs get to choose what approach feels best to them, with different tradeoffs for each one.
Final Thoughts
This chapter isn't very well structured! And its a lot of rolls (I'd argue too many) without anything interesting to break them up. But I think there's enough interesting stuff to be worth salvaging, I just wish I'd had time to do all of this before running it instead of only being able to sit down after the fact. With a little massaging, this chapter can be super interesting and compelling, and I'm excited to finish out the book regardless.
Active Antagonism: The Aspis Consortium
Even before running this chapter, I anticipated some of the problems above (though not all of them, and not well enough). So I designed some opposition! In Book 2, my players killed some corrupt cops bell ringers and had to flee the city, deciding to head to one of their hometowns! Little did they know, however, that the Aspis Consortium had a stranglehold over the town, using unfair contracts and escalating debt to force the Anadi village into effectively indentured servitude. So, I figured they'd be an excellent antagonist for this chapter as well!
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| Aspis Agent |
Campaign Role
Not all those who seek Walkena's favor have the best of intentions. The Aspis Consortium heard of Walkena's offer to the Anthusis Traveling Merchant Guild, and through Worknesh managed to convince Walknea that to allow one must be to allow the other. Walkena secretly thinks it will be a fun test for the heroes and the Merchants alike to see how they contend with the Aspis Consortium, and has no plans to allow foreigners to oversee the city's economic interests - which is why the Consortium's main plan hinges on convincing Walkena's advisers that they are not so foreign after all.
The figurehead they are putting forward is an Umanyano (Kallijae Half-Elf) man named Gaias. As the public face in the city, he is the one who will speak with the heroes, though one of his superiors will almost certainly be present (at least at first), as well as the one to make introductions with the various delegates. Any who Worknesh thinks might be more amenable to the true purpose of the Consortium are spoken to by Lord Antonio instead.
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| Enforcer Nera (art of Linxia Benzekri) |
Antonio and Florenzia will both spread rumors and misinformation about the party, giving a -4 circumstance penalty to Contact or Influence a Mzali Figure (down to -2 if the party make peace with M'bele). This penalty ends once the heroes succeed on their first check with a given figure, as the truth becomes clear.
If the heroes prove particularly pernicious, or if they treat with M'bele more than Gaias, the Consortium may try to have them removed! First only thugs are sent, but then Nera or Florenzia will lead the next attempt.
Even if the party do treat with Gaias, Antonio will consider them rivals, knowing the reputation of Magaambya - especially if any of them are Anadi, Grippli, or other less human-like ancestries - though he will try to keep to the shadows, knowing that a Chelaxian interfering directly could spell doom for their efforts here, and primarily work through Worknesh, who stands to benefit from the weapons the Consortium can provide.
Members
Chief Negotiator Gaias (Perception +22, Will +20) is the official face of the delegation, but Lord Antonio Meschino is the true leader. "Lady" Florenzia often accompanies Gaias to ensure he is doing his job while Lord Antonio and his bodyguard Enforcer Nera talk to the big players. They also have 6 agents that operate in teams of 2.
Chief Negotiator Gaias
Gaias is an Umanyano (Kallijae Half-Elf) man, the bastard son of a Chelaxian noble and a Kallijae woman. He was raised by his father's servants, ever kept from the centers of power, and never new his mother. He is a diplomatic prodigy, but new to working with the Aspis Consortium - he doesn't have a strong understanding of their true nature, but is excited for this opportunity to prove himself and learn more about his heritage. He is only copper rank, but all the ranks are being kept secret (the party might find their metals in their rooms if they sneak in).
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| Chief Negotiator Gaias by Jonah Matteo (GalacticJonah) |
Influence Stat Block
Perception +22
Will +20
Discovery DC 23 Mercantile Lore, DC 28 Perception, DC 33 Religion, DC 26 Society
Influence Skills DC 26 Mercantile or Architecture Lore, DC 29 Society, DC 34 Deception, DC 32 Diplomacy, DC 36 Intimidation (+5 to all DCs while Lord Antonio, Florenzia, or Nera are present)
Influence 2 Gaias takes a liking to the party, even if the others never will. He will offer to meet with the heroes without Lord Antonio present, though Nera or Florenzia will still be among the guard.
Influence 4 Gaias will work to subtly counteract the lies told about the heroes, removing the penalty for making contact with new folks. If any avenues have been closed, he will put in a good word to reopen them.
Influence 6 Gaias will offer to join forces, tying the Aspis Consortium and the Magaambyan interests together. As a show of good faith, he offers advice on making an introduction to someone they haven't much spoken to, granting them a +2 to their next check. This earns the heroes 1 Influence Point with Nkiruka (though she is not shy about her disapproval).
Influence 8 Through your combined negotiating power, the heroes gain a +2 circumstance bonus to all checks to Influence other Mzali figures, or +3 if they would get the same from M'bele.
Background: Gaias is the child of a Kallijae mother who he never met and a Chelaxian father who "raised" him (mostly through tutors) in Cheliax. He ended up working for the Aspis Consortium as his father had, and when he was sent to his ancestral home in the Mwangi Expanse he began to research vigorously, finding deep pleasure in his bastardized understanding of the Kallijae doctrines of self-discipline.
Delegation Bias The Aspis Consotrium doesn't look kindly on non-humans. Elves and dwarves are close enough (especially since they don't want to tip their hand to Gaias, who is a half-elf), but any orcs, anadi, etc. turn any critical successes into successes while Antonio is present.
Resistances The Aspis Consortium and new Vidrian are diametrically opposed, given the Consortiums not-so-subtle ties with Cheliax. If the heroes are also working to court M'bele, increase any Influence DCs by half the party's current Influence with him.
Weaknesses Gaias is a huge architecture nerd, especially about the Mwangi Expanse - talking about the architecture of Mzali or an elven city in particular is a great way to get on his good side.
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| Lord Antonio by Liu Pengcheng |
Lord Antonio Meschino
The true power, however, is Lord Antonio Meschino, a retired Chelaxian general who groomed Gaias for this position. After his assault on Jula was repelled (see Book 3), he decided to join in on some economic imperialism instead of traditional colonialism and has worked his way to Gold Rank. He is the real antagonist, and will do anything to stop the party from thwarting his plans.
Lord Antonio is cold, calculating, and brutal. Between this and his long military experience, he gets along great with Worknesh! Anyone who she thinks will be amenable to the true purpose of the Consortium - to make everyone involved an absolute fuck ton of money - will be spoken to by Antonio directly. Everyone who requires a more subtle tough will be spoken to by Gaias.
Other Agents
| Florenzia, from LO: Mwangi Expanse |
"Lady" Florenzia is a silver agent who has been just on the cusp of gold for years now, but she's faced setback after setback in the Bloodcove (both against the Pathfinder society and various pirate crews). She is a self-styled Lady, but not an official noble. She would do anything for gold status (including betray Lord Antonio, if it looked like she could get away with it).
Enforcer Nera is a silver agent, and is unfailingly loyal to Lord Antonio.
How'd it Go?
Having antagonists was huge! There were several points where the players stopped their diplomatic efforts to focus on fucking up the Aspis Consortium's plans, including the Anadi basically wrangling an army of spiders (and the rest of the party pitching in hundreds of gold worth of crickets to feed their growing army) to make their lives a living hell by getting into all their clothes, food, etc. This also provided a great angle for the party druid to spy on them in wild-shaped spider form!
It also enabled me to put time pressure on them. There was a point towards the end where they learned through some good rolls with Nkiruka that once they got 8 Influence with her (I said it less mechanically), the meeting with Walkena would happen shortly thereafter, so they should do anything they want to do first before that. They started to basically take the gas off, focusing on like learning languages and research and other downtime, so being able to threaten them with "The Aspis Consortium is building up steam after the spider incident was mostly resolved, and if they beat you to the punch that'd be bad" lit a fire under their ass to push onward.
I do think I should've given the Aspis Consortium more active stuff to do throughout the process - I structured them like an Influence stat block because that's what the chapter was doing, but next time I think I'd focus more on their specific schemes much sooner and have them getting in the party's way from the beginning. Still, their presence not only spiced things up nicely, but it also gave me a reason to have Chapter 3 represent Worknesh basically going rogue - she was much friendlier with the Aspis Consortium than with the PCs.
I'm also planning a pretty epic conclusion where the Aspis Consortium realizes the players have beaten them to the punch and basically tries to assassinate them on their way (with Worknesh's very subtle help) - the PCs won't necessarily have to win all the fights, just escape to the temple. I'm pretty excited! Here's how the finale went!
That's all for now! Next time, I'll be discussing more in depth ways to potentially flesh this out. It won't be a full remix, because I've already run this chapter, but hopefully it'll be enough to get you started if you want to flesh it out yourself!
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